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Aims and Objectives of working group discussion
Size: 81 Kb Uploaded By: Jenny Ellis on Monday 12th November 2012 at 10:39

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:41:57 GMT, Monday 12th November 2012
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Hi Rona & Mandy,

I have uploaded the abstract to this forum- please see Pdf attached. You will just need to click on the Pdf and it will download to your computer. To confirm you can only have 1 Pdf attached to a discussion forum- so I couldn't add more to this forum, if you wanted/needed to add more I would need to merge the files together.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Rona Mackenzie  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:50:40 GMT, Monday 12th November 2012
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Hi...I've just spoken to Joanne Townsend and she plans to join the group, we should see some contact by the end of the week. She is prepared to share her ref list, so that we should find some useful info. KR Rona

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:51:56 GMT, Monday 12th November 2012
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Many thanks and brilliant, Jenny can you please add Jo to the list

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
11:09:43 GMT, Monday 12th November 2012
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Hi Mandy,

Joanne has been added to the group as suggested.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:41:50 GMT, Tuesday 20th November 2012
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Dear all, I have just asked Liz Thomas to co-chair for nursing. Was in Sicily talking last week and there is definitely concern over midwifery practice and the delivery of the head and of to do an episiotomy or not. Therefore since the physio's I think are looking at pelvic floor re-hav etc, I would like nurses to look at mat practice peripartum. I know Bob and his team of medics will also be looking at this. I am particularly concerned about birth practices, such as birthing pools, midwives not controlling the head and bladder care pre-during and post labour especially where catheters are concnere.d
Could these issues be looked at please and I also need aims and objectives to give to the ICS office from all three working party co-chairs
M

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:50:02 GMT, Tuesday 20th November 2012
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have found one paper on midwifery knowledge Butterfield et al (2007), could be a starting point and maybe we could replicate it...

Robert Freeman  Urogynaecologist, United Kingdom United Kingdom
18:24:40 GMT, Tuesday 20th November 2012
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I've met with Mandy today and am happy to chair the 'medical side'.
there is a lot of really interesting new data that could help wrt prevention.
I'm happy to invite people on to the group but don't we need to do this as per ICS 'standards' i.e. open competition, disclosures etc?

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
09:53:33 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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Jenny can you advise please....for the nursing chair we put out invites but the Helena asked Pauline, so two different approaches...

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
09:59:52 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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Hi Mandy,

As this is a working group you are not governed by the ICS Bylaws, so you would be free to invite whomever you feel would be best for the group. You do not need to advertise positions or request disclosures from the members.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:00:53 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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Dear Jenny, thanks for this...so Bob sorry you are lumbered with it

Robert Freeman  Urogynaecologist, United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:19:07 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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no problem
Will go ahead and invite members but please can you send the aims and objectives again
thanks

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:48:07 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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Dear all, aims and objectives really should be agreed by the co-chairs and their own committees...However, my general vision is:-
Aim:-
For the working party to provide, over a three year term, consenus and guidance on peri-natal care with a global perspective.
Objectives:-
To undertake a systematic review
To provide evidence based guidance
To widely disseminate and advertise this guidance to a universal
audience
Hope that makes sense.

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
14:17:30 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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Dear All, sorry for a long silence - I was pre-occupied with presenting at a midwifery conference which is now over so I can concentrate back on this working group. It would be great to hear from the group what would you like me to do as the midwifery representative. I am happy to look into midwifery literature on the subject, also to put a call to midwifery web-groups for information on any current guidelines and practice relating to perinatal bladder and bowels care in the UK and abroad. Episiotomy and 'controlling the head' at delivery have been such contentious issues for such a long time (with many strong opinions but very little consistent evidence), that my feeling is that it would be better to concentrate at first on bladder and bowels care which definitely need urgent attention, and to move to protecting the perineum issues at a later stage. What do you think? Don't get me wrong - protecting the perineum is a fascinating subject, and what I'm interested most - and so are most other midwives - therefore the danger is that everyone on my midwifery group lists will be responding about the perineums, and bladders and bowels will remain neglected as they have been for a long time...

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
14:22:19 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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Saying that, I will do a new literature search on protecting the perineum and keep the group informed. Can't resist!

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
14:27:18 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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Dear Anna, sounds great and I do have some references that Bob gave me yesterday which I will try and get out to everyone tomorrow

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
14:28:20 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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And to your first point, yes we need to look at the bladder and bowels including management of the bladder during and after delivery

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
14:45:11 GMT, Wednesday 21st November 2012
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Dear All - I guess especially Jenny? - could someone remind me how can we share documents? I saw an earlier message from Jenny that only one document can be attached to the forum and we have one already. There is one small audit I want to share...

Rona Mackenzie  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:09:30 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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Hi.... Found this reference when looking for something else on my pc!!
Kearney, R., & Cutner, A. (2008). Review postpartum voiding dysfunction. The Obstetrician and Gynaecologist , Vol 10 pp 71-74.

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:13:46 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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have you read it. Bob has given me loads of authors names but I have left the papers at home and a nice amount of evidence on episeotomies and managing the head

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:22:24 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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Would love to see the evidence on episiotomies and managing the head - please let me know?

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:24:29 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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will bring the references in tomorrow

Rona Mackenzie  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:24:59 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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Yes I've read it. Most useful for updating guidelines in 2008.

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:46:53 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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Keaney and Cutner not on pubmed but can get on-line...two more:-
LIM jL (2010), Post-partum voiding and dysfunction and urinary retention
and Groutz a et al (2011), Neurourology and urodynamcis, 30, 83-86. Protracted postpartum urinary retention: the importance of early diagnosis and timely intervention. Joanne, what did you do and find for your Masters???

Rona Mackenzie  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:59:29 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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I'm haveing problems accessing papers as I'm no longer with the NHS or any Uni. Only have the references collected until end of 2011

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:28:43 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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Dear All - as I still don't know how to share a document with you, I'm going to send you one in two installments by coping and pasting it into this discussion. It was a draft proposal I was preparing for our postnatal ward relating to a campaign to improve post-partum bladder care. It considers what weorked well in the past, and suggests developments for the future. Typically, other priorities took precedence over bladders, and nothing much happened since... However, I think this could be a good start to our discussion. Any feedback most welcome.

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:29:35 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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part 1:
OPTIMAL BLADDER CARE ACTION PLAN

There were a few key elements that made our last ‘PN bladder care campaign’ effective:

- almost daily (however brief) presence of a specialist midwife on the ward;

- working with midwives rather than against them – i.e. encouraging them to see this as a shared, exciting project for which they take a responsibility rather than telling them off for things not done;

- having a clearly identified person who to contact for advice and assessment of bladder problems (in the past this used to be a specialist perineal midwife or, in specialist midwife’s absence - any of the consultants or an uro-gyne team doctor, and NOT a general obs and gynae SPR)


This is what I suggest we should do just to start things off :

1. A new display of bladder care posters on the ward, in all toilets and staff areas. I will re-design and simplify them. I’ll make them a bit different so they are noticed – people got used to the old ones!

2. Ensuring all women are given bladder information leaflet with voiding schedule on the admission to PN ward (as before). I will also re-design and simplify them.

3. Same leaflet – to be included in the AN booking information package for all women at booking.

4. Perineal midwives – on each visit to the ward to enquire about bladder care/output for women in at risk category, but also to chat to midwives about other women’s bladders, and to women themselves. Very good reminder and informal educational opportunity!

5. It would be good if staff on each shift could allocate one person (midwife, student or HCA) who would pay special attention to bladders on that day – to chat to the women and check if they understood the information on the posters and leaflets, clarify points, and encourage them to wee.

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:30:10 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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Part 2:
6. I don’t feel it is realistic to expect all women to measure their urinary output – until we find a comfortable way for doing it. The discomfort of trying to wee in a jug or a little bowl may itself cause bladder retention! However we should encourage women for the first 12 hrs (or so) after delivery to time their voiding and record an estimate of quantity – a large amount, just few drops etc – as per their voiding leaflet.

7. We should include bladder care in mandatory training. Even 15 mins would be enough just as a reminder. In the past we would combine this with Supervisors update and audit – when all midwives attending mandatory training were asked to make an audit of intrapartum bladder care. With the help of Rixa I have collected this way some data – which was never analysed. It would be great if Debbie could help to analyse it (I have the excel data) and then we could repeat that audit in the same way. Midwives used to enjoy doing it on their mandatory training and were often shocked how poor the records were each of them would do about 5 sets of notes)

8. To repeat PN bladder care audit on e.g. 2-monthly basis and report the results to ward staff.

9. To make little stools / foot rests available for women to use when necessary to facilitate voiding.

10. To have sanitary wipes available for women to use in each toilet – often women do not sit down on the loo while on the ward because of the hygiene concerns, and weeing while standing can of course cause voiding difficulty.

11. Have a voiding column on the wall board (maybe its there already? Sorry, haven’t noticed)

12. To produce a 3-monthly ‘Bladder, bowels and perineums’ newsletter where we would regularly present some statistics on tears, bladder problems etc and results of on-going audits, as well as some educational information on relevant subjects.


Any other suggestions most welcome


Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:38:57 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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Wander if we could obtain some ics research monies for this....at least to pilot...

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:39:04 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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And this is a link to an abstract presented by my team at the ICS conference in 2008 relating to a small audit on postpartum voiding dysfunction

http://www.icsoffice.org/Abstracts/Publish/46/000424.pdf

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:47:00 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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cheers Anna and has any follow up been done.

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:49:23 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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OK we could apply for a £50,000 research grant for a pilot study....what does everyone think please and Anna could you put together or not????

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:49:39 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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Not unfortunately.... No time and no money.... I also have a really good set of data relating to documenting voiding intrapartum that needs analysing and possibly repeating here as well as in other settings.

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:51:34 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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That would be exciting! let's see what others think.

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:52:57 GMT, Monday 26th November 2012
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Agree...over to everyone else for comments

Pauline Chiarelli  Physiotherapist, Australia Australia
00:00:39 GMT, Tuesday 27th November 2012
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The topic of this paper is th every thing that got me interested in intrapartum bladder management.
There is ALMOST no content in the midwifery program at my Uni related to bladder management.
We have a stand alone Bachelor of Midwifery Program here and I have pushed my input into teh program - they were very receptive but without my instigation I am unsure WHAT the program would have contained.

I think we need to develop teh guidelines THEN look to getting them accepted into undergraduate programs.

I think the guidelines are especially important in relation to bladder management and epidurals - that was my concern when I did my PhD study . There was no consensus as to correct management - it was whatever (if anything) individual midwives AND obstetricians had been taught during training.

I agree the research grant would be great - its International and trans disciplinary

This is a HUGE topic but one that ICS should perhaps work with IUGA????
Otherwise we need to decided to what "chunks" we can actually give due diligence.

But -- its great to be talking about it

Elizabeth Thomas  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Australia Australia
13:25:05 GMT, Tuesday 27th November 2012
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Hi all , apologies for delay in coming on board!
have had a series of unfortunate events to deal with... now mostly resolved!

I do have a number of references to share, developed a pp bladder guideline as part of my masters program, have recently done some work on perineal protection will attach when i work out how to do so.

Think I may be missing something with concerns re intra partum care?
can someone enlighten me on back ground please?
post partum care here continues to be tricky, one of my aims for 2013 is to somehow increase continence midwives presence on post natal wards!

Maria Helena Lopes  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Brazil Brazil
17:59:00 GMT, Tuesday 27th November 2012
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Recently I made a revision of the literature for a presentation about this subject and I found some interesting references (systematic reviews) and the guideline below that I suppose some of you know better than I.
We could start discussing the main points presented in this guidelines related to prevention of pelvic floor damage and urinary and anal incontinence, and then discuss the main point where we can interfere, based in scientific evidence. What do you think?

Association of Women's Health, Obstetric and Neonatal Nurses (AWHONN). Nursing care and management of the second stage of labor, second edition. Evidence-based clinical practice guideline. Washington (DC): Association of Women's Health, Obstetric and Neonatal Nurses (AWHONN); 2007. 53 p. [181 references]

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:47:52 GMT, Wednesday 28th November 2012
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Cheers one and all, Liz, the intra partum bit is also being looked at...think we need to do a systematic review...Liz could you co-ordiante please on peri-partum nursing care for first year, then second year guidelines and then third year disemmination...what do one and all think?

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
11:09:38 GMT, Wednesday 28th November 2012
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Maria Helena, your right the awhonn guideline is good

Rona Mackenzie  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:54:38 GMT, Wednesday 28th November 2012
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Hi Mandy....as you are aware I cannot access these documents. Can you email a copy to my home email address that you already have? Thanks

Rona Mackenzie  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:15:59 GMT, Wednesday 28th November 2012
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I have emailed a document to Jenny for addition to the folder. It has been used as the basis of a number of articles for non academic journals.
In our maternity unit we had problems in the late 1990's, but with the introduction of simple common sense guidelines, a one hour bladder/bowel session annually for all midwives on their mandatory updating and identified continence link midwives, we haven't had a single woman with a 800+ residual. A small number don't void, may need in/out up to twice, a small number (less than 10 out of 3000+ deliveries) either doing ISC or a foley with a catheter valve for 7 days. All have resolved and no long term problems.

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:19:58 GMT, Wednesday 28th November 2012
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Yes, please, could we all have an access to the AWHONN paper?

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
13:52:57 GMT, Wednesday 28th November 2012
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Dear All,

To confirm Rona's document (Urinary Retention after Childbirth) has been added to the working group documents section, as requested. This can be found as follows; http://www.icsoffice.org/Documents/Documents.aspx?DocumentID=1679

Kind Regards

Jenny

Rona Mackenzie  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
18:14:05 GMT, Wednesday 28th November 2012
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Hi... I've been having an email chat with Jenny and she has come up with a way of holding the documents that are being suggested by group members, so that we don't have to go away and individually search for them. She will let us know what she wants us to do and what we can do for our selves in the future. Many thanks to Jenny

Maria Helena Lopes  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Brazil Brazil
02:37:35 GMT, Thursday 29th November 2012
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Mandy
Your propose is better. How could we do it? The first step will be to write a study protocol. Is it possible in the ICS site using some resources like the WIKI?

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:48:09 GMT, Thursday 29th November 2012
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Dear All,

If you have any documents that you would like uploading to the discussion forum, so that other members of the group can view them, then please email them to me and I will upload these for you.
Going forward I will write a step by step guide on how to upload documents which will be sent to all members of the working group. This guide will show how you can add these documents and post notification to members. As soon as this information is available and online you will receive an email notification.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
11:40:57 GMT, Sunday 2nd December 2012
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Responding to Pauline, dearest Pauline do you think you get other physio's on the physio workstream please. We have a number of nurses...also Bob Freeman involved and he is IUGA as well...but IUGA have very few nursing members including midwives so think ICS should lead but link to IUGA via Bob.
As physio co-chair with Margaret Pauline do you want to link with Bob and Liz please.
If we could spend first year doing systematic review, second working on interdisciplinary guidance and 3rd on taking forward I believe that should be the plan??

Pauline Chiarelli  Physiotherapist, Australia Australia
04:35:44 GMT, Monday 3rd December 2012
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More than happy to link with Bob and Liz and I think the plan looks fine.
Not sure how to facilitate "linking" with Bob and Liz - Marg will have to link in as well.

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
09:52:57 GMT, Monday 3rd December 2012
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I agree. jenny can you just do a forum for Pauline, Liz and Bob and Marg and myself and a seperate one for the whole committee

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:13:27 GMT, Monday 3rd December 2012
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Dear Mandy,

I have set this forum up as requested and email will shortly be sent out from this forum to the group confirming access.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Robert Freeman  Urogynaecologist, United Kingdom United Kingdom
18:46:52 GMT, Tuesday 4th December 2012
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happy to provide data on episiotomy and prevention of OASIS.
we're doing a systematic review on this and perineal support.
Not sure how you want me to link-up.
Maybe just by e-mail or maybe teleconference.
thanks
Best wishes
Bob

Maria Helena Lopes  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Brazil Brazil
00:00:49 GMT, Wednesday 5th December 2012
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Jenny, please, I can not find your e-mail. Could you give us?

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
08:57:09 GMT, Wednesday 5th December 2012
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Hi Maria,

Of course! My email address is jenny@icsoffice.org

Kind Regards

Jenny

Maria Helena Lopes  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Brazil Brazil
22:51:37 GMT, Wednesday 5th December 2012
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Jenny

I just sent an e-mail with the Guideline Summary NGC-8051 - Nursing care and management of the second stage of labor, second edition. The complete text is not available for free.
Kind Regards
Maria Helena

Pauline Chiarelli  Physiotherapist, Australia Australia
03:20:20 GMT, Monday 10th December 2012
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Jenny - the Physio Midwife has agreed to join the physio panel Heather Pierce email: aqwhaphysio@optusnet.com.au

I am floundering a bit with this committee - no idea it would separate from nurse - it was meant to be multidisciplinary .....?????

So not sure how we are proceeding?
Who is on this "new " Physio committee - Bob Freeman myself and???
and we need to decide what we are looking at???

Intrapartum continence promotion was what I thought the topic was.
Lots of Cochrane reviews of Physio postnatal PFMX so where to from here???

I am sorry - I feel a bit lost

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:43:31 GMT, Monday 10th December 2012
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Dear all, I hope this clears up some confusion...my vision was three linked working groups as part of the working party. One nursing, one physio and one medical, all looking at their own bits of practice but linked to midwifery guidance. Therefore the nurses working group is set up with Liz co-chairing. My vision Pauline was for you to be physio co-chair and Bob Medical co-chair, each with your own working group. The remit is Peri-partum, both pre, intra and post partum....nurses mainly looking at bladder care and delivery, physio's all physio care and Medics mainly intra-partum. I have put in a budget request for a face to face meeting of everyone in Barcelona for a day.
Pauline, I my thoughts were that you should set up your own physio group as part to the multi-disciplinary group and can therefore for this year do a systematic review to bring to hopefully a meeting in Barcelona and the other groups doing the same. Maybe might be best to speak on the phone...can I call you

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
17:06:05 GMT, Monday 10th December 2012
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Hi Pauline,

I am just confirming that Heather now has an account set up and I have added her to the working group. I will email Heather to confirm her log in details.
I believe Mandy has confirmed the other points that you have raised.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Pauline Chiarelli  Physiotherapist, Australia Australia
03:39:37 GMT, Thursday 13th December 2012
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Jenny - I have a better idea of what I am to do now BUT need a working party!!

Just Heather and myself not enough.

Can I get a call out to other physios somehow to invite them onto the working party?

From Physio point of view I am not sure there is much to be done - there are pre and post partum Systematic reviews related to PFMX already so ??????

The call needs to go out for physios to join this committee to explore exactly what needs to be included in a review of Physio pre and post natal continence promotion practices.

Is this possible Jenny?
I will be on annual leave soon ( Australia shuts down over Christmas and early January to cope with Xmas/summer/the heat/ kids on school holidays etc. But still have a week to get any interested people on board besides Heather.

Also a bit confused as to How discussions in the Physio group
will roll out? Will we all use this interface I am using currently?

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
09:23:50 GMT, Thursday 13th December 2012
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Hi Pauline,

I am sure that adding other physios would be no problem at all. Did you want me to email the physio committee members to see if they would be interested in coming on board or if they know someone suitable?

The discussions would take place on the intra and post partum forum- I can set up separate forums for the physio's to use (they would need to be an ICS member for me to add them.) All I would need to know is whom needs access to the forum and then I can add specific names to that group and then only those people can be involved in the discussion (so it's basically a members only area.)

Kind Regards

Jenny

Maria Helena Lopes  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Brazil Brazil
22:45:26 GMT, Thursday 13th December 2012
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Mandy and Jenny
Please, how can I contribute with this work?

Kind Regards

Maria Helena

Pauline Chiarelli  Physiotherapist, Australia Australia
04:12:11 GMT, Friday 14th December 2012
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Jenny - I think committee members have enough on their plates so response might be poor- wonder if call request might also go out to general physio members???

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
09:04:39 GMT, Friday 14th December 2012
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Hi Pauline,

I would be happy to email the general physio membership, I will email you direct to work on the wording for this mail out.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Elizabeth Thomas  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Australia Australia
02:00:43 GMT, Sunday 16th December 2012
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Hi Jenny
are you aware that the pdf aims and objectives is copy of Joannes paper?
I am still feeling way behind here.will email you some references today. in midst of pre Christmas / end of year southern hemisphere stuff as well as Pauline.


Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:16:24 GMT, Monday 17th December 2012
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Hi Elizabeth,

Yes, at the start of the discussion I was asked by Mandy to upload this to the forum. But I am happy to move this across to the documents section if everyone feels this is more appropriate?
Please do email me any documents that you would like uploading to the documents folder.

Kind Regards

jenny

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
11:16:55 GMT, Monday 17th December 2012
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Bob - just noticed your comment about being happy to provide episiotomy / perineal support information - it wouold be great if you could share it - maybe by asking Jenny to add your document/ files to the documents that are included already? Thank you so much - anna

Pauline Chiarelli  Physiotherapist, Australia Australia
00:50:41 GMT, Tuesday 18th December 2012
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I am trying to find Mandy's original aims and obs to check which are relevant to the physio stream ( if not all) - I think we can probably pull something from these so that we have a coherent group between the working parties BUT - cant find original.
We could also use statement taken from Heather Pierce submission:

".... a lot of pre/postnatal physio has already been reviewed,so perhaps the aim would be to summarise this to feed back to the group, so that strategies can be formulated for an optimal multidisciplinary approach..."



Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:56:11 GMT, Tuesday 18th December 2012
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Cheers Pauline Heathers statement sounds good:- what we have to do is to keep an international perspective i.e. in Italy there are no physio's working in the field and no education and training...think we could also try and define what they need to be trained pre-natal and post-natal for how long and by whom...Does that make sense.

Maria Helena Lopes  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Brazil Brazil
14:21:26 GMT, Wednesday 19th December 2012
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Like Pauline, I can not find the aims and objectives of this working group discussion because the document attached above, with this title, is an abstract of the ICS Meeting. Mandy, could you attach the aims and objectives, please? I have some references about prevention of pelvic floor trauma and, consequently, of urinary and anal incontinence (or even urinary retention) but I do not know if these aspects must be included or not. Will be the main concern only postnatal urinary retention?

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
11:09:19 GMT, Thursday 20th December 2012
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Dear all, I have contacted Liz who is co-chair for the nursing part of this and for the systematic review for the first year we will be dividing up topics for each nursing/midwifery member. I will be working between Christmas and the New Year so await further info

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
20:25:22 GMT, Thursday 10th January 2013
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All the best New Year's wishes and greetings to all members of the Peri- post natal group.

As some of you may be aware, Mandy has asked me to support Liz by co-charing the Nursing and Midwifery sub-group, which I'll do with pleasure.I've been warned that this involves lots of co-ordinating and encouraging us all to produce what we promised to produce on time. As we are all expected now to be doing literature searches on specific topics as previously outlined by Mandy, I have a small suggestion to make which may help us all. From my experience, there is be A LOT of overlap with the same articles covering topics which in some cases will be of interest to ALL of us belonging to different task groups. Would it be possible, as we go along doing our searches, to send the copies of any relevant articles - or at least detailes of articles - to a 'CENTRAL DEPOSITORY' so we can all look there as and when necessary? This could save us duplication of work and effort. As we are using it purely for academic / professional reasons I don't think keeping articles in a central store will break any copyrights?

It would be best if we keep them somewhere on the group website (we will probably need Jenny's help with this) or if not possible, I could volunteer to do it. This would mean in practice - if you come across any article of interest, put it straight into the depository for all to see and use as relevant. I already have quite a selection which I can put there...

Please let us all know what do you think?

All the best to all

Anna

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
16:08:04 GMT, Friday 11th January 2013
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Hi Anna,

I am happy to update the documents on to the forum for you/the group. If you send this to me (Jenny@icsoffice.org) then I will aim to upload this within 24-48 hours.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
17:00:11 GMT, Friday 11th January 2013
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That's wonderful, than you so much. Shall we all send documents / articles/ search results directly to Jenny to place in the depository? I can start collating the bibliography list from the material collected there?

best wishes to all

Anna

Maria Helena Lopes  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Brazil Brazil
19:15:09 GMT, Wednesday 16th January 2013
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I will send to you the bibliography list about episiotomy that I sent to Ann. I made the research in the PUBMED and CINAHL using the keywords: episiotomy, pelvic floor, and the boolean operator AND. I have all the articles if somebody will have difficulty to access any of them.

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
21:59:34 GMT, Wednesday 23rd January 2013
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Dear All, we've been all rather quiet of recent. Maria Helena has sent some great results of searches on episiotomy which Jenny attached to the forum for all to see. I'm getting a bit confused about different sub-groups and sub-categories - we now have some documents inserted under general group, and some under the nursing group... Dear Jenny - you are such a great help - do you think we should keep all of our current research / evidence related documents - including results of the searches, abstracts and the whole articles under one heading of 'current searches', and all other documents under 'general'?

But whatever we do about collecting the evidence, we need to start collating and analysing it in a more systematic manner. I suggest that for the time being we all do our searches, and put the results into the shared pot. But we should also start now longer-term planning - any chance that we could have the first drafts of our reports by the end of April?

Sorry if I sound bossy - I'm under Mandy's strict instructions to try to keep everyone hard working and inspired.... And I'm bossing myself too, as up to date I did not have much time to dedicate to this work - but I promise to do more from now on!

Please send any suggestions how do you think we should best coordinate our efforts, and also some suggestions of dates for deadlines. I know that most of us get energised by deadlines....

On another note - Mandy - did you get any luck with contacting Italian midwives? How is the italian course planning going?

With best wishes to all

Anna

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:09:11 GMT, Thursday 24th January 2013
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Hi Anna,

I can create a new forum called current research and move all research documents into this forum, if you could just confirm which documents are in the nursing folder I will move these across.

Thanks

Jenny

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
10:13:26 GMT, Thursday 24th January 2013
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Lovely, I think this would be very helpful - let's wait for other members think? I'll try to get myself organised and identify the right documents - together with some new documents and articles to add there. Give me time till Monday please...

many thanks

anna

Size: 15 Kb Uploaded By: Jenny Ellis on Tuesday 5th February 2013 at 14:08

Jenny Ellis  United Kingdom United Kingdom
14:18:04 GMT, Tuesday 5th February 2013
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Dear Members,
Please note the Postnatal Urinary Retention document attached to this forum has now moved to the following page; http://www.icsoffice.org/Documents/Documents.aspx?DocumentID=1821

I have replaced this with a draft word document regarding the working group’s aims. This document is a draft to be discussed by the group as a whole, please could you review this document and provide your comments on this forum.

The aim of this forum/draft document is to outline and finalise the work that the group as a whole and subset groups will be working on and how & when these will be achieved. Once finalised this information will be made available on the main working group page.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Maria Helena Lopes  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), Brazil Brazil
00:59:23 GMT, Friday 8th February 2013
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First of all, Mandy proposed a narrative review and Jenny a systematic review. I suggest to make a integrative review and to follow the steps proposed by Whittemore & Knafl (The integrative review: updated methodology, Journal of Advanced Nursing, 2005; 52(5), 546–553)
According to these authors, “the integrative review method is the only approach that allows for the combination of diverse methodologies (for example, experimental and non-experimental research), and has the potential to play a greater role in evidence-based practice for nursing”.

They proposed some steps: a problem formulation stage, a literature search stage, a data
evaluation stage, a data analysis stage, and a presentation stage.

My suggestion for each step:
1. Problem: How the postnatal urinary retention could be prevented during the intra and postpartum period?
2. Literature search: two reviewers for each theme (as proposed by Mandy) Databases: Cochrane, PubMed, Cinahl and Embase.
3. Data evaluation: the reviewers of each subgroup discuss the relevance of each article, the evidences and the limitations.
4. Data analysis: the reviewers make a synthesis, integrating the results of the several articles.
5. Presentation: a short text written by the reviewers is presented to the entire group to be improved before to be included in a final document that will be revised by all the group.

I will send the article of Whittemore & Knafl, by e-mail, to Jenny. Jenny, could you publish it in the forum, please?

Maria Helena

Heather Pierce  Physiotherapist, Australia Australia
05:38:58 GMT, Tuesday 2nd July 2013
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Dear All,
Is this forum still active?
I need to apologise as I have not been in touch for many months due to the time pressure of other commitments.
I was allocated as part of the nursing (midwifery) working group contribution to the 'second stage of labour' with Liz.
I am not aware of or have had emails re any advancement in collation of a 'narrative review' this area.
Could anyone advise of any progress?
Thanks.
By the way, the programme for Barcelona looks excellent!

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
12:42:34 GMT, Thursday 4th July 2013
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Unfortunately there wasn't much activity around. We'd better start preparing for some productive discussions in Barcelona. One very interesting recent development, of course, was the Delphi study facilitated by Bob Freeman. The data collection for the first phase is now completed (I believe), so we are awaiting the next steps... As to our own activity - there should be a collection of relevant materials collected / displayed by Ellie for all of us. Maybe as a reminder, we should all review this, and see if we can add any more useful papers / references there? Shall we set outrselves a two week deadline for doing just this first step towards 'revival'? Please All let me know what you think/ suggest? anna

Heather Pierce  Physiotherapist, Australia Australia
06:14:36 GMT, Friday 12th July 2013
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Hi Anna, Thanks for responding. Perhaps we need to be more realistic with our time frame and expectations for what the working group would like to achieve. As Pauline has already shared, the evidence for physiotherapy management has been done in other contexts, and really just needs to be summarised and presented for discussion. In terms of midwifery/obstetric management, I am aware of a Professor of Midwifery in Australia, Hannah Dahlen, who will be presenting on "What is the evidence for preserving the perineum and enhancing second stage comfort" at a workshop I am planning to attend on 19th July. (see full programme: http://www.uws.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/459087/SNM3038_Conference_brochure_2013_FA_WEB.pdf ). Hannah was one of my supervisors for my Honours research, and has published in this area. I am thinking that it would be beneficial to engage her knowledge and perspective in these discussions. I am fully supportive of Maria's suggestion of the process on how to proceed with the review in each 'subgroup' but feel a little daunted by the task which in order to be worthwhile, demands adequate time and effort. I am also aware that we do not want to just "preserve the perineum", but optimise continence outcomes for women. If the group is agreeable I will approach Hannah and see what I can come up with to move things forward. At this stage, (unless there is a miracle!) I will not be attending Barcelona conference(it is extremely expensive to come from Australia). Kind Regards, Heather

Amanda Wells  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
14:15:39 GMT, Tuesday 30th July 2013
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Dear all, are you all going to conference...I wander if we could get together in a room for lunch one day...what do you think???

Anna Bosanquet  Nurse (Specialist/Advisor/Practitioner/Academic), United Kingdom United Kingdom
14:53:58 GMT, Tuesday 30th July 2013
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Yes, please, that would be great. I will be there only Monday-Wednesday, so any of these days would be best for me.

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